Boris Williams

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 18:01:08 GMT 1 fatrabbit likes this

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 18:01:08 GMT 1

I really miss Boris ... The way he played drums was so intense and creative !!!! It was a part of the Cure's sounding !!! I am sorry for the Cooper's fans (is there any ? 😂😂😂), but in my opinion, Robert has made an terrible mistake hiring Cooper !

Cooper does fit to The Cure as much as Reeves Gabrels fit to The Cure, meaning definitely not.

The Cure songs from 1996 to 2008 would have sounded very differently if there were Boris at the drums ... For everyone who dislike 10:13 Dream's album (and even for those who like it), listen to it and try to imagine each song with the Boris drums hits !

That album deserved much better than Cooper, The Cure (as album and as band) deserves much better than Cooper. I really believe it.

Last Edit: Oct 15, 2020 20:04:16 GMT 1 by steve

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 18:14:27 GMT 1 steve and weedyburton79 like this

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 18:14:27 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 18:01:08 GMT 1 @kiwifan said:

I really miss Boris ... The way he played drums was so intense and creative !!!! It was a part of the Cure's sounding !!! I am sorry for the Cooper's fans (is there any ? 😂😂😂), but in my opinion, Robert has made an terrible mistake hiring Cooper !

Cooper does fit to The Cure as much as Reeves Gabrels fit to The Cure, meaning definitely not.

The Cure songs from 1996 to 2008 would have sounded very differently if there were Boris at the drums ... For everyone who dislike 10:13 Dream's album (and even for those who like it), listen to it and try to imagine each song with the Boris drums hits !

That album deserved much better than Cooper, The Cure (as album and as band) deserves much better than Cooper. I really believe it.

But JC was weaned at the teat of The Cure! They took him in before his voice changed, nearly. Kidding, of course.

Of course Jason Cooper belongs in the band. You may or may not think he fits or has the talent of Boris (he's a different drummer, so of course his playing will be different), but the only thing that matters is whose band it is and the fact that individual picked him to be a part of his band. I have my own feelings about whether RG "fits" in with the sound I love about TC, aside from his talent (he has it, in spades). Despite that, I have to acknowledge there is only one person whose opinion really matters in terms of who fits in.

We lot definitely have our strong opinions of which line ups of the band we like best. But you can never go backwards in time or recreate.

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 18:21:30 GMT 1 sandgrounder likes this

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Post by fatrabbit on Oct 15, 2020 18:21:30 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 18:01:08 GMT 1 @kiwifan said:

I really miss Boris ... The way he played drums was so intense and creative !!!! It was a part of the Cure's sounding !!! I am sorry for the Cooper's fans (is there any ? 😂😂😂), but in my opinion, Robert has made an terrible mistake hiring Cooper !

Cooper does fit to The Cure as much as Reeves Gabrels fit to The Cure, meaning definitely not.

The Cure songs from 1996 to 2008 would have sounded very differently if there were Boris at the drums ... For everyone who dislike 10:13 Dream's album (and even for those who like it), listen to it and try to imagine each song with the Boris drums hits !

That album deserved much better than Cooper, The Cure (as album and as band) deserves much better than Cooper. I really believe it.

I agree with you about Jason, even if I started to dislike Boris' drumming around 91'.
I think Jason's drumming was OK from 1995 to 2004, but then it got more and more heavy with cymbals everywhere...
I also don't like Reeves guitar style. He's a pretty good guitarist, but doesn't fit The Cure...
Perry was the perfect 2nd guitarist to me, his playing and sound were pretty close to Roberts.
And he also really looked like a Cure member on stage !!!!

Bordeaux,1987.12.03
Paris,1989.07.08
Paris,1989.07.09
Paris,1992.10.19
Paris,1992.10.20
Paris,1992.10.21
Bordeaux,1992.11.12
Paris,Opera Bastille,1996.05.06
Paris,1996.10.15
Toulouse,1996.11.03
Paris,Bataclan,1996.11.06
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London,RAH,2011.11.15
Montpellier,2016.11.18
London,2016.12.02
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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 18:40:12 GMT 1

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 18:40:12 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 18:14:27 GMT 1 @notkristie said:

Oct 15, 2020 18:01:08 GMT 1 @kiwifan said:

I really miss Boris ... The way he played drums was so intense and creative !!!! It was a part of the Cure's sounding !!! I am sorry for the Cooper's fans (is there any ? 😂😂😂), but in my opinion, Robert has made an terrible mistake hiring Cooper !

Cooper does fit to The Cure as much as Reeves Gabrels fit to The Cure, meaning definitely not.

The Cure songs from 1996 to 2008 would have sounded very differently if there were Boris at the drums ... For everyone who dislike 10:13 Dream's album (and even for those who like it), listen to it and try to imagine each song with the Boris drums hits !

That album deserved much better than Cooper, The Cure (as album and as band) deserves much better than Cooper. I really believe it.

But JC was weaned at the teat of The Cure! They took him in before his voice changed, nearly. Kidding, of course.

Of course Jason Cooper belongs in the band. You may or may not think he fits or has the talent of Boris (he's a different drummer, so of course his playing will be different), but the only thing that matters is whose band it is and the fact that individual picked him to be a part of his band. I have my own feelings about whether RG "fits" in with the sound I love about TC, aside from his talent (he has it, in spades). Despite that, I have to acknowledge there is only one person whose opinion really matters in terms of who fits in.

We lot definitely have our strong opinions of which line ups of the band we like best. But you can never go backwards in time or recreate.

Sorry but even Robert don't know how to defend Cooper's presence in the group. In a retrospective interview, Robert talked about the different members of The Cure, and when he arrived at Jason Cooper, obviously, he did know what to say about him. He started by saying "he's just a nice guy" (... which is not enough to make him a strong part of the group (creatively and in performance too)).

Seeing that was not enough Robert ended by saying Cooper bring many things with his new look on the band... (not for the best, I assume)

Fact is, they had to replace Boris who left The Cure in 1994 to join his girlfriend Caroline Crawley in Shelleyan Orphan. They did not have much time to do it as in 1993 they were in trial against Lol Tolhurst, and Boris has left The Cure in the early 1995, if I remember correctly. The Cure even started to make promo pictures with him, they did not even think he would leave the band...

They lost a lot of time with the trial, and they had to came back for a new record quickly. Cooper had 1 year to learn to play Cure songs (for the gigs), and they all have to record Wild Mood Swings.

The only one factor that counted, was to find someone with who nobody have any relationship problems with (while until then, The Cure was mostly a matter of friendship, this makes a big difference)

And after, I think you can easily understand that they did not want to make him go to find someone else with who the compatibility was not assured...

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 18:48:29 GMT 1 steve likes this

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 18:48:29 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 18:40:12 GMT 1 @kiwifan said:

Oct 15, 2020 18:14:27 GMT 1 @notkristie said:

The only one factor that counted, was to find someone with who nobody have any relationship problems with (while until then, The Cure was mostly a matter of friendship, this makes a big difference)

And after, I think you can easily understand that they did not want to make him go to find someone else with who the compatibility was not assured...

I was thinking about the relationship aspect before it stuck out to me in what you wrote. That's a huge factor in the longevity of a band, IMO. If someone is a d!ck, of course you won't be able to sustain the arrangement. Playing with someone you don't mesh with just won't be fun and why do it if you aren't enjoying it? What's the point?

RS is probably a pretty good judge of character and certainly thinks heavily about WHO he wants to play with. I will certainly *not* say JC is my favorite percussionist from TC. But this thread is about BW, so I digress. Boris certainly deserves some love.

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 18:54:21 GMT 1

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 18:54:21 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 18:21:30 GMT 1 fatrabbit said:

Oct 15, 2020 18:01:08 GMT 1 @kiwifan said:

I really miss Boris ... The way he played drums was so intense and creative !!!! It was a part of the Cure's sounding !!! I am sorry for the Cooper's fans (is there any ? 😂😂😂), but in my opinion, Robert has made an terrible mistake hiring Cooper !

Cooper does fit to The Cure as much as Reeves Gabrels fit to The Cure, meaning definitely not.

The Cure songs from 1996 to 2008 would have sounded very differently if there were Boris at the drums ... For everyone who dislike 10:13 Dream's album (and even for those who like it), listen to it and try to imagine each song with the Boris drums hits !

That album deserved much better than Cooper, The Cure (as album and as band) deserves much better than Cooper. I really believe it.

I agree with you about Jason, even if I started to dislike Boris' drumming around 91'.

I don't agree with you ... The best moments of Boris were in 1992, he plays completely freely in the Wish album, and this is poweful and intense.

I think Jason's drumming was OK from 1995 to 2004, but then it got more and more heavy with cymbals everywhere...

I think Cooper was awful from the start : desperately flat, with a sound of toy drums for children, from 1996 to 2019 😂😂😂😂😂😂, But I do agree with you by saying he started to use too much cymbals after 2004.

I also don't like Reeves guitar style. He's a pretty good guitarist, but doesn't fit The Cure...

Reves Gabrels was here to replace at short notice Porl Thompson in gigs, Porl left The Cure in 2009 to create his own band (The Swanson's Daughter), but his band now has crashed. Gabrels may have been a good guitarist for David Bowie, but the way he plays does not fit to The Cure's songs. He knows that, himself as he always plays alone in his corner at stage.

Perry was the perfect 2nd guitarist to me, his playing and sound were pretty close to Roberts.

And he also really looked like a Cure member on stage !!!

I love Perry Bamonte, he was a really great guitarist, and he really looked like a Cure member on stage, I agree with you on that but I think the perfect 2nd guitarist was Porl Thompson. Now that is not a problem as like almost all the Cure's members Perry Bamonte plays several instruments, he plays keyboard as well. So does Porl Thompson who plays saxophone too, just like Robert plays bass as well.

!

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 18:59:55 GMT 1 BlueHughes likes this

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 18:59:55 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 18:48:29 GMT 1 @notkristie said:

Oct 15, 2020 18:40:12 GMT 1 @kiwifan said:

The only one factor that counted, was to find someone with who nobody have any relationship problems with (while until then, The Cure was mostly a matter of friendship, this makes a big difference)

And after, I think you can easily understand that they did not want to make him go to find someone else with who the compatibility was not assured...

I was thinking about the relationship aspect before it stuck out to me in what you wrote. That's a huge factor in the longevity of a band, IMO. If someone is a d!ck, of course you won't be able to sustain the arrangement. Playing with someone you don't mesh with just won't be fun and why do it if you aren't enjoying it? What's the point?

RS is probably a pretty good judge of character and certainly thinks heavily about WHO he wants to play with. I will certainly *not* say JC is my favorite percussionist from TC. But this thread is about BW, so I digress. Boris certainly deserves some love.

Yes, I agree with you, even if, in my opinion, there is a big difference between "being a nice boy" and "being a friend". That is not the same level. The Cure's members were friends until then. Even Andy Anderson whos was new in the group, was their friend too.

Now I agree : this is the topic about Boris Williams, not about Jason Cooper. When I created it I've done my best not to talk as long as I wanted about Cooper. That is why I did not talk about what I hate about Cooper's play as a drummer but what I loved about Boris' play as a drummer. The focus has been made on Cooper, but that was not what I wanted.

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 19:25:49 GMT 1 BlueHughes likes this

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 19:25:49 GMT 1

I saw there was a topic about Cooper and then I didn't want to say what I wanted to say about what I dislike in his way to play drums here.

Now that things have turned out this way I did not want, I have nothing more to say about him in his topic, as I have already said it in this one 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Last Edit: Oct 15, 2020 19:26:26 GMT 1 by Deleted

martyuk Head on the Door member Posts: 778	Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 19:45:47 GMT 1 steve and BlueHughes like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by martyuk on Oct 15, 2020 19:45:47 GMT 1 Oh NOT this old argument AGAIN.
	Last Edit: Oct 15, 2020 19:46:23 GMT 1 by martyuk

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 19:51:45 GMT 1 BlueHughes likes this

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 19:51:45 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 19:45:47 GMT 1 martyuk said:

Oh NOT this old argument AGAIN.

I don't know what old argument you're talking about, but I assume, yes, this old argument appears again (sorry) 😂😂😂😂😂

But that's not such an old argument as The Cure is a great band. So, old arguments are not necessarily bad ones and it is god to use them as often we need to 😉

But thank you for your participation 😂😂😂😂

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 20:16:32 GMT 1 weedyburton79 likes this

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Post by steve on Oct 15, 2020 20:16:32 GMT 1

I was a bit wary of Jason at first as he was going really splashy with the cymbals, but today I find him a million miles better than Boris.
Sure, Boris brought a new dimension to the band's rhythm section but if you are a musician, you will start to realise he was very mechanical in the way he played. Not much in the way of feeling.
Not that he's not a great drummer. He is. But Jason is just a lot better & Robert actually loves having Jason in the band for just that reason. If he didn't he wouldn't be the longest serving drummer in their history & one of the best things to happen to the band was Boris leaving.
So stop bashing Jason.

Tear out the pages with all the bad news

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 20:24:22 GMT 1

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 20:24:22 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 20:16:32 GMT 1 steve said:

I was a bit wary of Jason at first as he was going really splashy with the cymbals, but today I find him a million miles better than Boris.
Sure, Boris brought a new dimension to the band's rhythm section but if you are a musician, you will start to realise he was very mechanical in the way he played. Not much in the way of feeling.
Not that he's not a great drummer. He is. But Jason is just a lot better & Robert actually loves having Jason in the band for just that reason. If he didn't he wouldn't be the longest serving drummer in their history & one of the best things to happen to the band was Boris leaving.
So stop bashing Jason.

Very funny, Steve, to give to Boris exactly the Coopers' flaws. But I cannot answer without talking about Cooper in a topic about Boris.

Now, of course, you have any rights to do as much mistakes as you want, but my right is to tell you those are mistakes, so I say it.

You won't find many people who agree with you on the idea Cooper is better than Boris. The opposite is not only recognized by most of the Cure fans but by many musicians too (including drummers) ... But good luck with that 😉

About what Robert says about Cooper, please, read my post.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm gonna eat, as it is late and I did not already take a lunch 😊

BlueHughes Wild Mood Swings member Posts: 2,125	Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 20:32:55 GMT 1 steve, gongoro73, and 1 more like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by BlueHughes on Oct 15, 2020 20:32:55 GMT 1 I wish I was alive to see Boris with The Cure live on stage, then I could participate in this discussion properly!
	For it's better to forget...

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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 20:35:06 GMT 1 BlueHughes likes this

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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2020 20:35:06 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 20:32:55 GMT 1 BlueHughes said:

I wish I was alive to see Boris with The Cure live on stage, then I could participate in this discussion properly!

He did not die and you did not, so everything is possible, just be ready 😉

Last Edit: Oct 15, 2020 20:35:27 GMT 1 by Deleted

steve
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Boris Williams Oct 15, 2020 20:51:47 GMT 1

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Post by steve on Oct 15, 2020 20:51:47 GMT 1

Oct 15, 2020 20:35:06 GMT 1 @kiwifan said:

Oct 15, 2020 20:32:55 GMT 1 BlueHughes said:

I wish I was alive to see Boris with The Cure live on stage, then I could participate in this discussion properly!

He did not die and you did not, so everything is possible, just be ready 😉

I saw him play with both The Thompson Twins & The Cure.

He will never be back in The Cure though.

Tear out the pages with all the bad news

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