Maybe I should open a new thread (Steve, what do you think?). There are many Cure shows that are circulating in lossy form only or very generated or with unknown lineage. There is a huge work to clean up the Cure trading circle.
I've been collecting many other bands recordings and some were really a mess ten years ago (thinking about Queen trading circle). With the will of few people (including me), it is much more clean now. There's a website listing every circulating show with lineage (or not in not available) (www.queenlive.ca) and 99% of them are circulating among fans now. Well, there are still some smart asses sharing them in mp3 or without lineage (then what can we do about it?) but at least people caring about quality have the best version available.
There are many other major bands that have this kind of website. Showing you Nirvana (www.livenirvana.com), Foo Fighters (foofighterslive.com) and The Clash (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/77994754/Blackmarketclash/index.html) because these are bands that I really love. Cure-concerts is great but there's no idea of what is really circulating and with which lineage.
I know that it is a huge work because the Cure have been touring a lot and there's a monstruous mess wih it. But I really think it would worth it.
sorry no way...i never upload/seed a show here or elsewhere again from my cure-seum...there are too many abused...
convert to mp3 and upload on other pages...blablabla...
When I convert my FLACs to 320 MP3s, you can almost hear it scream as the bytes are removed.
That's not really it. You want to do that, then that's fine & totally your call. T's talking about file sets being compressed & then posted on cruddy blogspots or even (& I know this has happened) sold as bootlegs on evilbay. It basically pollutes the trading pool & leaves serious collectors with file sets that are basically untraceable as to the origin. By all means compress them. Just don't pass them on in that form if they weren't in that form in the first place
Yes, that's true, the problem is not people converting their own recordings into mp3 to hear it in their ipads, the problem is people shamelessly sharing lossy recordings from lossless recordings where it was asked specifically not to share it as lossy. Or worse, people selling them. But then, what can we do?
Before I joined the old Cure Connections, there was a European website which offered "legal" downloads of $1 a song. They had a large selection of lossy Cure bootleg concert Mp3s, all of which were illegal to sell and of uniformly poor quality (128 mbps). Since discovering the Cure Community I have greatly upgraded the quality of my audience recording listening experience. I'm surprised people are still trying to sell someone else's work, and with shoddy work at that.
Last Edit: May 29, 2015 19:20:39 GMT 1 by AForestFan
Yes, that's true, the problem is not people converting their own recordings into mp3 to hear it in their ipads, the problem is people shamelessly sharing lossy recordings from lossless recordings where it was asked specifically not to share it as lossy. Or worse, people selling them. But then, what can we do?
nothing...i think...
your name...like ice into my heart...a shllow grave...a monument to the ruined age...ice in my eyes...and eyes like ice don't move...screaming at the moon...as cold as silence...and you never will say a word...this is my name...and a strange day...ever and ever and ever again......
Steve, thanks for creating a new thread. I sent you a message with some ideas. Did you read it?
I think there should be a section where we can discuss reçordings, lineage, upgrades, lossless or not, which sources are circulating as lossless and which ones are only circulating in lossy form. what do you think?
I think the way we all listen to music is personal. Some like to take their mp3 player to the gym for when they pound the treadmill, some like to relax in a comfy chair with a beverage or recreational stimulant while the music pours out of their state of the art home entertainment system. I see no reason to deprive anyone of their personal preference or belittle anyone for it.
I make it a personal point not to post recordings that I know are lossy, as I personally would like to give people the chance to enjoy the music as they wish & from the best possible source. Whether they choose to compress it for their players, or whatever is up to them & no-one has the right to say that’s wrong. It’s not about “snobbery” or “elitism”. It’s about preference & what a lossless file set affords is the possibility to enjoy in any which way you like. That’s to say sure. Go ahead & load it on your phone etc. But you still have the high quality option for when you fire up the stereo (that you spent quite a bit of cash on) at home. I think a pretty good example is AForestFan’s awesome capture of the New Orleans show. HD video & sound. If you were to watch it on a HD display, wouldn’t you rather it looked as good as it could & not have half the pixels missing? Conversely, if you wanted to experience it on your phone screen or ageing tablet with Radio Shack earbuds, is there much point in loading the enormous raw MTS files? You’re not going to get any benefit & you’ll just bog down the memory. I think the cliche is “horses for courses”.
But I do believe the trading pool is very polluted nowadays as more & more “hobbyists” open up tumblrs & blogspots chock full of lossy copies of recordings that someone has taken great pains to capture in all their glory initially. What’s even more worrying is that often these compromised file sets are downloaded & whopped onto just about any of the bootleg CDs you find on evilbay today & sold. Moreover, there are those that even take those lossy file sets & actually go to the trouble of pressing vinyl bootlegs from them. For collectors, this can be very frustrating, as the source & lineage become instantly unknown. (one reason we don’t allow bootlegs to be sold here, not to mention that it’s actually illegal). I can’t see that stopping to be honest & the only real action that’ll cease this practice is if tapers & collectors simply stop sharing with the wider community. Thorsten’s already decided that’s what he wants to do & if you look at just how many new shows have been circulated since 2012, you get a pretty good idea of how ticked off tapers are getting too. But no-body really wants that do they?
I use the terms “hobbyists” & “collectors”. That’s NOT meant as a derogatory “label”. One of my hobbies is fishing. I’m not terribly good at it & don’t (often) catch a monster fish, but I have pro friends who offer advice & encourage me. I listen & choose the methods I prefer. Whether it delivers a better result or not, is down to my preference.
The sites jumeteor has mentioned are indeed pretty comprehensive guides & some of the known lineages are interesting. But I can’t help feeling that they are somewhat redundant. Again. That's just my opinion. The “holy grail” (for collectors) is the master (or clone of the master). In addition, The Cure is one of the most bootlegged bands in history & to maintain that level of detail would quickly turn into a full time job. If anyone wants to start a project that big, well, best of luck. You’ll need it. But I’m sure that this & many other The Cure fan communities would gladly provide information if needed.
Currently, by far & away the best reference site for known recordings on the web is cure-concerts. It’s concise, simple & I’m not sure it really needs anything added to make it any better. Like I said, the holy grail is the master so if I have an AU1 copy of that master, why would I need to know there is an AU4 that has been converted to mp3 & then bloated back into wavs during its trek through the community? Or am I missing something?
I think, in short, the most effective compromise is to leave file sets alone & not share them as something else. That’s to say, if the original set was lossless, then keep it that way. The same goes for lossy sets. Don’t bloat them up like cure for all does. It’s a waste of storage space & bandwidth & although it’s possible to compress them all over again, what ends up happening is you compress a file set that’s already been compressed & so it gets even more damaged in the process. An example of that is The Sisters re-broadcast radio sessions on 6music. It’s a ~20mb MP2 file set that has been masquerading as a ~300mb FLAC set, but if you compress those flacs back to MP2s, you’ll wreck the files.
But going back to my opening point. The way YOU enjoy the recording is YOUR choice. No-one should tell you otherwise & the best way to clean up the trading/ sharing pool is to not pollute it in the first place.
I agree with you with almost what you said. My only point is about determining which version of a particular source is the best. I think there might be a misunderstanding here. You took the example of a master circulating and a 4th gen turned into mp3 of the same source from an obscure blog. To me, listing the blog version is useless, people just have to know that the master is circulating and that's precisely the aim of the future list. In an other hand, there are sources that are only circulating in mp3. The audience recording of Ljubjana 89 I shared few weeks ago comes to my mind and I remember that a lot of 92 shows were shared as mp3 on the old Cure Connections tracker when all the Wish shows were distributed in 2012. I guess that if a mp3 set was distributed, it meant that no lossless recording was available. Mp3 is not bad if it is the only surviving source and is better than nothing. But we really need to know that it is the best circulating version and no lossless version is available. Then, in this case, the best mp3 version will be listed. I know it is a huge work and I m not saying it will be finished tomorrow. But this needs to be initiated and in few years, maybe, the cure trading pool will be perfectly clean.
What do you think?
Last Edit: May 31, 2015 11:25:22 GMT 1 by jumeteor
This is a very weak spot for me. Most of us do not have software that can determine what is chopped up what isn't. I use my ears to tell but that does not always work. I am VERY serious about not sharing stuff that is chopped up converted etc.... so how DO we put a stop to this or at least slow it down?