With this recurrence of depression, I've found myself overtaken by the feeling this life is all incredibly pointless. It's hard to find a reason to go on when you feel that way. I have a child and husband, so I haveto go on. (As an aside, I can't help thinking of what I've heard RS supposedly say re: not having children; I couldn't agree more).
So, I've been asking my friends and family what they think the point of life is. At the moment, the most I can come up with is to have and appreciate experiences and beauty (nature, art, etc.) and to help other living things (people, animals, plants) on their own journey in life. While I say that, I'm still not really convinced.
If you can enlighten me as to what you think the point of life is, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I think it depends on what life (humans, animals, plants). I see the universe as just one enormous body of cells, just like those you'd see under a microscope. Some life is out to protect those cells & some is hellbent on destroying them. I'll leave the which one's doing what question to your own imaginations.
I believe we live in a simulation and the earth is the only place where life exists. The farthest corners of the universe, other galaxies etc. are just a mirage and don't even exist if no one's observing them. Vast physical universe is just an illusion and we are concious minds "trapped" in virtual universe run by some nonhuman supercomputer on another reality. What we really are, where and why is impossible to know. I believe we are meant to cherish life and beauty and will receive our rewards in the afterlife, if not in this life. That's just my 2 cents.
One good thing about music, when it hits you feel no pain So hit me with music, hit me with music
Post by nausearockpig on Jan 4, 2024 22:31:29 GMT 1
There is no point to life outside of propagation of the species, which in and of itself is a depressing point of view, and fairly pointless, mindless venture. But this is what it is.
There is no god/s, there is no afterlife, no soul, there is life and there is nothing after it. Humans created deities in an effort to explain that which they had no (scientific) capability of understanding and explaining, and this was then co-opted to control the masses.
Luckily, or unluckily (depending on your point of view, current mood, belief system, et al) we have the ability to think, therefore we are. This gives us the ability / the burden to try to make sense of the senseless, but once you accept that there is no grand plan, no reason for being, other than navigating your meagre years on earth, the best you can do is strive for happiness for yourself, those closest to you and try to promote general goodness to everyone in the hope it rubs off on them.
This is difficult to accept which is why (I believe) so many people use the various crutches out there (religion, drugs, alcohol, other) to help them get through their days.
Or, maybe it is 42, or maybe I’m a heathen going to hell.
If you have a lead on Brisbane 21 August 1992 - CT version, for the love of Bob, let me know. Please!
I strongly think there is a "point/meaning in life" but it's not something that can be expressed in words, it can only be felt.
Although I want to share two quotes from my 2 favourite thinkers of all time, Lao Tze and Heraclitus.
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The Tao that can be spoken of is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The name is the mother of the ten thousand things. Send your desires away and you will see the mystery. Be filled with desire and you will see only the manifestation. As these two come forth they differ in name. Yet at their source they are the same. This source is called a mystery. Darkness within darkness, the gateway to all mystery.
Tao Te Ching, Book 1 (the translation renders the richness of the original poorly, though).
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Listening not to me but to the Logos it is wise to agree that all things are one*.
Heraclitus (Fragment 50)
*the original in Greek is "hen panta heinai", literally: " one all existing entities". There's no verb in between. It's like a mirror formula, which can be read in both ways, kind of like a mathematical formula: so the one (the unity, the totality) is all things (the many, the multiplicity), but also viceversa: all things are one.
It is a contradiction only if you take it propositionally, but it needs to be felt, lived, and then you realize it's true.
One more quote: "Value is the outcome of limitation". (A.N. Whitehead, Science and the Modern World).
We are finite beings and because of that we are intrinsically valuable.
Last Edit: Jan 4, 2024 23:03:09 GMT 1 by thebighand
With this recurrence of depression, I've found myself overtaken by the feeling this life is all incredibly pointless. It's hard to find a reason to go on when you feel that way. I have a child and husband, so I haveto go on. (As an aside, I can't help thinking of what I've heard RS supposedly say re: not having children; I couldn't agree more).
So, I've been asking my friends and family what they think the point of life is. At the moment, the most I can come up with is to have and appreciate experiences and beauty (nature, art, etc.) and to help other living things (people, animals, plants) on their own journey in life. While I say that, I'm still not really convinced.
If you can enlighten me as to what you think the point of life is, I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Who will say, "42?"
Hang in there kirstie. I think maybe some of what you're thinking may have something to do with the recent monumental birthday you just had. I'm a gentleman & won't say which on even though you said it. Try & find joy in the little things is the best I can come up with.
We cannot grasp or put into words the "ultimate reality".
But we have to make language work somehow.
So I borrow the concept of Tao, intended as a dynamic process, as the course of nature, where nature is meant as all there is.
We are in it, we are it.
But "The named is the mother of all things": language (and more generally conceptual thinking) carves out the unity that is reality into individual things, into multiplicity.
Free from desire (liberated from dukkha, the Buddha would say) - when we loosen the grip of our ego - we recognise ourselves as being part of the whole of nature/reality.
Caught up in desire - in our ego - we see the world as made of separate things and we see ourselves as facing a foreign "world out there".
But unity and multiplicity are two aspects of the same reality. They originate from the same deep mystery.
We are unique individuals (and therefore we are intrinsically valuable), and at the same time we're not separate from anything else.
These apparent opposites are just two ends of the same stick.
Take a newborn, think how he/she grips your finger. That's the Tao.
Think of how the air you breathe becomes your breath and how your breath turns back into the air around you. There's no separation, just an encounter/exchange between self and other, which are both always changing, never still, never the same.
I have never thought if life has or not any purpose. If you ask me, I will say there isn’t any. But I don’t really care at all. I don’t need any purpose to live. I just live.
It is so good to have you back, Kirstie. You are a very important part of this place. Please, take care of yourself.
I live my life believing there is no purpose... but the sun rose before I was born and it will rise after I'm dead, so I may as well try to enjoy it whilst I'm here. (I'm sure I read/heard RS say something along those lines once but I've never been able to find that again.)
I suppose in the most raw sense, the point of our life is to procreate, and continue life.
One can look at the world deterministically and everything will seem to be determined.
But everything is imbued with purpose, with intentionality, if you predispose your gaze to see it.
Look at how even something like a plant moves with purpose, such as towards light or water, even if so slowly for us to notice.
One can say it's just mechanics. But again, if you look at everything mechanistically then you end up seeing everything as machines. But there's no machine without a mechanic. The zeitgeist of our time has learnt to ignore that.
The word intentionality comes from the Latin intensio, which means stretching out, straining. Also effort.
Effort/strain (pain) and purpose/intentionality are two sides of the same coin.
It's why one replies to a thread like this even if they think (at a conscious, conceptual level, so at an abstract level) that there's no purpose in life. Meanwhile your lungs breathe air, your stomach, as it gets empty, makes you feel hungry, and your heart pumps away. And that's all deeply imbued with purpose. But that's concrete, not abstract. Concretion means growing together. Reality is a process of growth, a movement from potentiality to actuality. You do it as much as it does you.
That's what the universe is, the unfolding of a unity which is also a multiplicity, a unity which differentiates out into multiplicity, like a blooming flower.
That is what nature was for the ancient greeks. Physis meant just that originally: a process of growth, very much like the vegetal growth from seed to plant.
Is the whole of reality free or determined? Or do freedom and determination coincide once you take the perspective of all there is?
We are not free, we are freedom, as Bergson would put it. We participate in the freedom of the whole of reality. What constrains us is what makes us what we are. It's what makes us us. What merges us with everything else.
And it's a dynamic process, because we are change, we are time. Not the measured time of the clocks, that's just the map. The lived time (Dogen calls this Uji, being-time), which cannot be measured, because it doesn't have "spatial extension":
The eternal present, which carries with it the past and leans toward the future; the Here-and-Now where everyone is, always; where everything ever happens, ever happened and will ever happen.
No copernican revolution can take that away. We are, each of us, always at the centre of the universe.
Agency is always in the present, in the here-and-now. That's why we are free (why we are freedom itself).
If you move in synch with this flow that is reality unfolding, then purpose is what you do, not why you do it. The why is inextricable from the what.
Last Edit: Jan 5, 2024 12:28:47 GMT 1 by thebighand
One can look at the world deterministically and everything will seem to be determined.
.......
If you move in synch with this flow that is reality unfolding, then purpose is what you do, not why you do it. The why is inextricable from the what.
So you're saying it's 42 then?
Exactly. In fact from the chapter 42 of the Tao Te Ching:
The Tao gives birth to the One. The One gives birth to the Two. The Two give birth to the Three. The Three give birth to the ten thousand things. The ten thousand things are bolstered by Yin and wield Yang. Together they harmonize as Breath.
Which is precisely what I was saying. 🙂
Last Edit: Jan 5, 2024 13:37:53 GMT 1 by thebighand
Exactly. In fact from the chapter 42 of the Tao Te Ching:
The Tao gives birth to the One. The One gives birth to the Two. The Two give birth to the Three. The Three give birth to the ten thousand things. The ten thousand things are bolstered by Yin and wield Yang. Together they harmonize as Breath.
Which is precisely what I was saying. 🙂
OK, then, you've convinced me: I must dust off my copy of the Tao and re-read it. It's been many years.
I am truly amazed by the amount of wisdom contained in this thread. I wish I could add something as world-wise and of similar poignancy but I'm finding I need these answers just as much as anyone.
Thank you Kirstie for asking the hard and big questions. And thank you all for responding with such insightful thoughts.