Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration

nausearockpig
Wild Mood Swings member

in search of Brisbane 21 August 1992 CT version

Posts: 4,292

Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 10, 2021 13:07:44 GMT 1

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Post by nausearockpig on Apr 10, 2021 13:07:44 GMT 1

Before you crucify me and taunt me, hear me out and look at what I've written objectively, not like I've just said something awful about your nearest and dearest in front of all your friends at the pub, and they're all laughing at you.

Am I the only one who thinks that Lovesong doesn't belong on Disintegration - from a lyrical perspective?

If you were to review the lyrics at face value (i.e. what they say on paper, not reading into your possible interpretations) you can pretty easily allocate either "positive" or "negative" feelings to the them. Let's review:

Plainsong: Negative. Words and feelings about cold, dead, pain, sad, the end of the world.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/455/plainsong

Pictures of You: Negative. Words about regret, missing, breaking apart, could have, never holding onto heart.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/454/pictures

Closedown: Negative. not having a heart filled with love. hours of greed.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/453/closedown

Lovesong: Positive. No matter what, where or how he loves her, and she knows it.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/452/lovesong

Last Dance: Negative. Feelings of missed opportunities, loss, sadness, what was is now gone.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/451/last-dance

Lullaby: Negative. A nightmare eating him.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/450/lullaby

Fascination Street: Negative. Words and feelings about going out for going out's sake. The "can't be responsible for quite what goes in, or to care what comes out" smacks of lack of respect and indifference. Overall FS is quite odd, or perhaps, not as easily pegged.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/450/lullaby

Prayers for Rain: Negative. Words and feelings of stifling, dull, hopelessness, fracturing.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/448/prayers-rain

The Same Deep Water as You: Negative. This feels to me like a description of death. Maybe what drowning would be if you could put it into written words. I get the feeling of one person joining another in death.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/447/same-deep-water

Disintegration. Negative. I get feelings of missing a love that was tainted but couldn't be let go, of letting someone down, of constant disappointment in such a profound deep sense that it equals a complete mental disintegration.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/445/disintegration

Homesick: Negative. Doing a thing just one last time, achingly so, knowing that this one last beautiful time will hurt so much afterwards.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/444/homesick

Untitled: Negative. Feelings and words of hopelessness, drifting lost, never getting to say that thing before it is too late. There's a lot of loss here.
thecurecommunity.freeforums.net/thread/443/untitled

So with all that in mind, generally speaking, aside from Lovesong, Disintegration is wholly about different aspects of negative feelings, be they utter sadness and despair or feelings of having to go and do something with someone but not really wanting to and just giving in or missing out on something beautiful, or knowing that this is the last time. There are a wide range of emotions and (let's call them) scenarios where RS is detailing many different flavours of heartache and heartbreak.

Then in track four, he bungs in a song about how much he loves Mary. Don't get me wrong, I think Lovesong is a great track, lyrically and musically, but lyrically it just doesn't reflect any of the feelings such as utter despair, sadness, hopelessness, et al that are strewn across all of the other tracks. It just doesn't fit.

I think it's cool RS put his wedding present to Mary in millions of houses around the world, and that putting Lovesong on Disintegration probably helped push the album a lot, and that it made it to number 2 on US charts, helping them on their way up and up. I just don't think it fits the moods on the album.

Releasing it as a non-album single at the time would not have made sense, and I think Disintegration would not have been received as well if 2 Late or one of the other b-side tracks was in that slot. The video is a bit naff, but the single artwork is outstanding.

What are your thoughts on what is probably going to be known as utter sacrilege and the cause of my The Cure Fan Club Membership being revoked......

If you have a lead on Brisbane 21 August 1992 - CT version, for the love of Bob, let me know. Please!

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Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 10, 2021 17:16:06 GMT 1 steve, Pipperoo, and 2 more like this

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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 17:16:06 GMT 1

"Burn the witch! Burn the witch! Heretic!" (puke)

I respectfully disagree and here's why...

I have never felt Lovesong is really a positive song. To me, there's an underlying theme of how you take someone for granted when you've been with them for a while. Case in point:

However far away
I will always love you
However long I stay
I will always love you
Whatever words I say
I will always love you
I will always love you.

It's like saying, "No matter what I do or say, I do love you", which is kind of messed up, in a way. Believe what I say, not my actions, if you will. Treat someone poorly because you know they will always be there for you. There are always moments we realize how badly we have treated those near and dear to us, how our actions don't reflect our feelings. It's kind of like begging forgiveness.

Also, you can't ignore the fact it's in a minor key, which keeps it from being a happy, positive song for me.

To me, it's not one of the strongest songs on the album and it's one I'm prone to skip since it's played so much in other contexts. But I do see why it belongs on the album.

Fabien G Head on the Door member recognise Posts: 972	Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 10, 2021 17:56:50 GMT 1 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Fabien G on Apr 10, 2021 17:56:50 GMT 1 Well, the thing is one isn't suppose to take only the lyrics on their own... Same applies to the other songs, so their analysis of their lyrics i don't really agree to either.
	Last Edit: Apr 10, 2021 17:58:55 GMT 1 by Fabien G

czuczu
Bloodflowers member

Posts: 5,249

Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 10, 2021 18:29:59 GMT 1 via mobile

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Post by czuczu on Apr 10, 2021 18:29:59 GMT 1

I've never thought of it as a mostly negative album, bittersweet would be closer for me.

2 Late feels like the aberration from those sessions - ridiculously upbeat melody compared to everything else.
Lovesong is musically much closer to the rest of the album, minor key etc.

@stuczu

BlueHughes
Kiss Me member

Posts: 1,939

Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 10, 2021 19:16:07 GMT 1 nausearockpig likes this

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Post by BlueHughes on Apr 10, 2021 19:16:07 GMT 1

Apr 10, 2021 17:16:06 GMT 1 @notkristie said:

I have never felt Lovesong is really a positive song. To me, there's an underlying theme of how you take someone for granted when you've been with them for a while. Case in point:

However far away
I will always love you
However long I stay
I will always love you
Whatever words I say
I will always love you
I will always love you.

It's like saying, "No matter what I do or say, I do love you", which is kind of messed up, in a way. Believe what I say, not my actions, if you will. Treat someone poorly because you know they will always be there for you. There are always moments we realize how badly we have treated those near and dear to us, how our actions don't reflect our feelings. It's kind of like begging forgiveness.

Unless it's a myth (genuinely never looked it up) as to when and why he wrote Lovesong, I think it's lyrics are meant face value.

Your take here is interesting though, that's one thing I love about art, you can read many agendas and feelings into it, whether it's image or writing, even if the artist didn't mean for that to be the case.

Last Edit: Apr 10, 2021 19:16:30 GMT 1 by BlueHughes

For it's better to forget...

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Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 10, 2021 20:40:22 GMT 1 steve likes this

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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2021 20:40:22 GMT 1

Apr 10, 2021 19:16:07 GMT 1 BlueHughes said:

Apr 10, 2021 17:16:06 GMT 1 @notkristie said:

I have never felt Lovesong is really a positive song. To me, there's an underlying theme of how you take someone for granted when you've been with them for a while. Case in point:

However far away
I will always love you
However long I stay
I will always love you
Whatever words I say
I will always love you
I will always love you.

It's like saying, "No matter what I do or say, I do love you", which is kind of messed up, in a way. Believe what I say, not my actions, if you will. Treat someone poorly because you know they will always be there for you. There are always moments we realize how badly we have treated those near and dear to us, how our actions don't reflect our feelings. It's kind of like begging forgiveness.

Unless it's a myth (genuinely never looked it up) as to when and why he wrote Lovesong, I think it's lyrics are meant face value.

Your take here is interesting though, that's one thing I love about art, you can read many agendas and feelings into it, whether it's image or writing, even if the artist didn't mean for that to be the case.

Agreed that's one of the greatest values of art. If something doesn't elicit anything but one response from people, I have a hard time calling it art.

I do think it's the wedding present it's been described as. But even when I take the words at face value I end up in the same place... Saying "treating someone poorly" is an overstatement. I think maybe "melancholy" suites the sentiment more closely. Even though it's a love song, for me there is still the sense of the dynamics born of familiarity that tend to settle in when you've been with someone for a long time. You just know you'll always be there for each other no matter what happens, and sometimes that makes it easier to take someone for granted. The song is a reassurance, maybe.

lioness
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Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 10, 2021 23:13:09 GMT 1 nausearockpig likes this

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Post by lioness on Apr 10, 2021 23:13:09 GMT 1

I agree with @notkristie the most.

In Lovesong there is so much of melancholy that it can't be taken for a simple, positive love song. Maybe it's RS himself happy, in love but on his dark side or maybe it was deliberate to put some sadness in the song to make if fit into the album. But maybe it just isn't so simple.

Putting here the words "Whatever words I say" might have been very meaningful. I also always thought that he was saying "I'm sorry". I'm sorry for my behaviour, just know that you are my love and I feel like home with you. Despite all the things I do... Later on in some performances the words "Whatever games I play" appeared.

Well, it is the art so interpretations must be done. I don't think your The Cure Fan Club Membership will be revoked, nausearockpig

PS. BTW, I couldn't agree with you more about TSDWAY...

But I don't see
And I don't feel
But tightly hold up silently
My hands before my fading eyes
And in my eyes
Your smile

I mistook stars reflected in a pond at night for those in the sky.

mralphabet Kiss Me member Posts: 1,282	Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 11, 2021 0:04:16 GMT 1 via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by mralphabet on Apr 11, 2021 0:04:16 GMT 1 It's not actually a big minor key album, almost half of it is in major keys.

nausearockpig Wild Mood Swings member in search of Brisbane 21 August 1992 CT version Posts: 4,292	Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 11, 2021 0:43:59 GMT 1 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by nausearockpig on Apr 11, 2021 0:43:59 GMT 1 Apr 11, 2021 0:04:16 GMT 1 mralphabet said: It's not actually a big minor key album, almost half of it is in major keys. I was referring to the lyrics, not the music.
	If you have a lead on Brisbane 21 August 1992 - CT version, for the love of Bob, let me know. Please!

czuczu
Bloodflowers member

Posts: 5,249

Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 11, 2021 14:44:04 GMT 1 BlueHughes likes this

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Post by czuczu on Apr 11, 2021 14:44:04 GMT 1

I think a lot of these songs, rather than flat out negative, are about the passage of time and memories of specific moments - Plainsong, Pictures Of You, Last Dance etc.

The tenses in Plainsong are a riddle because it flips briefly into present for the 'Sometimes' bit but it's all about that smile, isn't it? The smile undercuts all the doom and gloom.

Pictures of You is packed with happy memories before the "if only" and the picture vandalism.

In Last Dance, the first person is glad the second person came - she's prettier than ever but time has moved on and they're on their own separate paths. But its 'what if?' from the perspective of grown ups rather than kids not 'argh!'.

Fascination Street - the narrator wants to go out and get forked up, they're the instigator twisting someone else's arm but knowing it's going to get messy. But it's a "lets do this!" song not a "regret" song like Open.

They don't all have a silver lining (Prayers is bleak as anything, Homesick is done and dusted, Disintegration is what it is) but those brighter moments are there throughout the album and Lovesong does it's bit to add a little balance to the mood. I think it fits.

Lyrically, I've always thought there are more themes going that it seems at face value but they're obscured by the claustrophobia of the production which is so consistently dense and in your face that it feels more like a concept album than it actually is.

@stuczu

nausearockpig
Wild Mood Swings member

in search of Brisbane 21 August 1992 CT version

Posts: 4,292

Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Apr 13, 2021 2:22:26 GMT 1 via mobile steve, BlueHughes, and 1 more like this

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Post by nausearockpig on Apr 13, 2021 2:22:26 GMT 1

Yeah I was breaking them down into positive and negative to make it easier to get my point across. Realistically the album has so many different emotions or feelings, even within each some tracks.

If you have a lead on Brisbane 21 August 1992 - CT version, for the love of Bob, let me know. Please!

perfectmurderer
Three Imaginary Boys member

Posts: 2

Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration May 11, 2021 20:06:14 GMT 1 nausearockpig likes this

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Post by perfectmurderer on May 11, 2021 20:06:14 GMT 1

Having just read this interview from 2004 it certainly seems Smith put "Lovesong" on the album "to be romantic" and believed it was "the weakest song there."

www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/the-cures-discography-robert-smith-looks-back-246129/

steve Big Hand random bootleg CRUMPET BOY Having trouble understanding Jane Posts: 55,203	Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration May 11, 2021 20:11:59 GMT 1 nausearockpig and perfectmurderer like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by steve on May 11, 2021 20:11:59 GMT 1 Hello perfectmurderer & welcome to the forum
	Last Edit: May 11, 2021 20:12:13 GMT 1 by steve Tear out the pages with all the bad news

mutilatedcorpse
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Posts: 40

Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Jun 6, 2023 17:16:26 GMT 1

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Post by mutilatedcorpse on Jun 6, 2023 17:16:26 GMT 1

I absolutely love Disintegration every track on the entire album is so good. This album would make it into my top five greatest records of all time. I'm a classic rock person, so Disintegration is in there with Pink Floyd-Animals, Led Zeppelin-Physical Graffiti and The Rolling Stones-Sticky Fingers.
Don't ask me to rank them against each other, they are all great.

Disintegration is the one album I can listen to all the way through without skipping tracks. Prayers For Rain and The Same Deep Water As You are my absolute favorites if I had to pick. Both tracks speak of a depression that I can identify with, its almost like slipping into the abyss.

As a musician the bass lines on this record are the thing of legend. The basslines are so good they are almost songs all by themselves. I always say to write a great song, you have to have a strong foundation, that means great drums and a great bassline that lock together and become the driving lifeforce of the song. This album has that.

Every track on this album compliments the other tracks making this a very special record. I did read what the original poster of this thread said about Lovesong and I see their point about the lyrics. However I think the track is perfect for the album.

Producer Tom Allom best known for producing Black Sabbath and Judas Priest said that Disintegration is in his top five best produced albums of all time.

For me this record has been there throughout my life and will always be there. I never tire of listening to it, and it never goes away for too long before I start playing it again. I can't imagine life without this record and yes, Lovesong is just as important to the album as are all the other tracks.

thebighand The Top member Posts: 534	Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration Jun 6, 2023 18:16:54 GMT 1 via mobile mutilatedcorpse likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by thebighand on Jun 6, 2023 18:16:54 GMT 1 "The basslines are so good they are almost songs all by themselves" 100%

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Lovesong shoehorned into Disintegration

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