2019 The Cure fan & TCC shirt

Hey Forest. Good point and quite a brutal one too. I'd be careful using mainstream media and TV shows as sources of education, they are propoganda tools. But yeah I get what you're saying, that some folk could turn from an 18 hour shift to a more a more brutal and horrific occupation when the corporation gives them no choice. I can't agree that it's ok to provide a child with a pitiful life and wage because it could be worse.
I'd prefer that we do give them a choice and we can only do this by telling the corporation that if they provide on our terms then we will make them a collosal amount of money. I rememeber the difficulties of being vegan 27 years ago and friends and family all going bat at me with 'you'll not change the world, I don't know what you're playing at' and look now..vegan butty adverts on the sides of busses and Kentucky using vegans to promote their macho meat ideal. The world changes by us choosing. And that sounds horribly self congratulatory I know : ) But jeeeez...we can't just say 'oh farmers need the money so lets torture pigs', or say 'but if the children didn't get the equivalent of 50 British pence per day then they might choose to do something worse'. we really need to let the corporation know that they will lose sales by not providing fair trade and that they can fleece us by providing it. we'll pay. we have a consiounce and we care and so we'll pay...
When the corporation knows that they will get more money from providing a decent wage to children then they will provide a decent wage to children. While we avoid activism from fear then they will continue to hurt people for their gain.

I think you misread me Forest It often happens. 
I really don't mind what we do, it's not about looking to remove the mote in anothers eye when mine are full of warships already.  I just have no interest in what others do.  When the question is 'what do we all think about x' and my response is 'well, I'm not dead comfy with x' that's just my contribution to the debate/discussion.  It could have been that there were an overwhelming amount of us feeling this way and not wanting to spoil the party, not wanting to speak out,  but there isn't, and I'm not here to tell anyone what to do.

Life goes on, the universe is big and spirit is even bigger...just get on with life best as we can.  No posturing.  My contribution was just that, just an unwelcome contribution that will fade to nothing soon enough.

Love onya!  And sell me your shirt in twenty years time...I always regret not getting these things : )

Miscommunication is possible, and if so I apologize to elfink.

I just don't blame any of these countries for making goods that westerners will buy.

Textile manufacturers all closed their factories in Europe and the United States, and our clothing is now made in inexpensive textile mills in Asia and elsewhere. Why? Because our politicians made it too expensive to make such things in our hometowns. So they are certainly to blame for the dollar-a-day sweatshops operated by mega-corporations.

If you want to turn things around, elect better politicians. As for me, I still want my CC forum t-shirt.

interesting conversation between both parties

I can confirm this. They look amazing! Our resident graphics guru DarthBlood designed them! As he does all of our headers above.  

I agree... take my money...   

I've added the proposed designs to the first post
For the TCC one we wanted to keep the identity we have on the web & for the 40th anniversary we veered away from fussy/ arty stuff.
Hats off to DarthBlood for putting these together 
As soon as we get good quotes & a green light to order, we'll set up a store link for you